Friday, August 6, 2010

An Evolving Respect

by Cody Kilgore

In response to Paul's "A Matter of Faith or Chicanery."

At some point, while getting to know someone, whether they're a new personal acquaintance or a coworker, the subject of religion or beliefs comes up. It’s the part of a conversation that I dislike; I’ve never understood why any faith has anything to do with a person’s value, and I've grown tired of trying to differentiate being an agnostic from being an atheist. I usually make light of it by saying an atheist doesn’t believe there is a God, and an agnostic is too apathetic to care if there is or not.


But you never know how that whole part of the conversation is going to go, and I know that sometimes my definition has done little to clarify it for them, or avoid their labeling me an atheist anyway. It’s just as well to let it go. I figure if I’m judged on it, it’s not a worthwhile connection anyway.

The problem I most dislike about how people view either atheists or agnostics is that they believe we pass judgment on people of faith, and it very well may be the case with many in those two camps. But, for myself, I instead prefer to view everyone’s faith or religion as a very personal conviction, something deeply felt, and deserving my respect. I personally believe this applies to every denomination and faith on the planet, meaning that I see Hindu, Muslim, Baptist, Presbyterian, Catholic…all of them on the same level. No one has all the answers or the inside scoop on a ticket to an afterlife.

Truth be told, I have more problems with organized religion than I do with the concept of any higher being or afterlife. Most instances of my life that have shaped my feelings about faith have been a result of my dealings with organized religion and the agents of such institutions. I think that any relationship one would choose to have with their respective deity would be best done directly, one-on-one, without any reliance on an institution between them and their god that can either interpret, or misinterpret, or interfere between the two.

This is exactly where my biggest problem with religion lies. Too many of the religions I have experienced, or seen, seem to want to act as an agent that determines the nature of one’s relationship with their god and what is acceptable morality to their god. I have difficulty with that. I think that morality has nothing to do with God, or religion, or anything to do with following either, and I always shudder at the thought that someone else would or could try to define those parameters for me. I also think a person is either good, or bad, or maybe a little mixture of both, whether they are a person of faith or not.

And when I see people like Benny Hinn—whom I had never even heard of before reading Paul’s piece—I have to remind myself that he is the extreme and worst product of organized religion, and try to maintain that healthy respect I want to keep (and pass on to my daughters) of most peoples’ faiths. He, and those like him, would make it easy to laugh at and look down on religion and the people that follow him or any religion, but you can’t do that. He’s ludicrous, and he is not the mainstream, despite what it looks like his duped audience size may be.

In short, the answer to Paul’s “Faith or Chicanery” question, obvious to me: chicanery. He is the ultimate example of the worst thing I see in religions; I distrust someone that inserts himself between man and God, posturing to be the appointed authority over others. Often, this is done for the purpose of persuasion, dominance, or financial gain. I always want to see people like him exposed, like so many televangelists before him have been. I think we all know the list of those that have fallen from grace when their on-screen shill is seen in a better perspective because their off-screen antics have been revealed. And, when one goes down, there always seems to be another one pop up in their place. That procession of pilferers will likely never end, so long as there are flocks to be fleeced. But, neither the false prophet, nor those that follow them are indicative of any healthy religious experience, or any healthy relationship with God, or a god.

Hinn is a con artist, but I can’t let him color my feelings about faiths or most people that follow them. In fact, all the friends I know that are people of faith are actually a couple of evolved life forms above him.

12 comments:

  1. Lori Jean (Paul, The Mullers, sis-in-law)August 6, 2010 at 11:40 AM

    A lot of great points. The feelings are so very mutual. It has been one heckuva journey in relation to religion for me and I have come to a lot of the same conclusions as you have. Especially this point, "Truth be told, I have more problems with organized religion than I do with the concept of any higher being or afterlife." To this, I say amen..in a non-religious way..ha.

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  2. The worst witness to Christianity are Christians themselves. You've nailed this one, Cody. Very good post.

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  3. Thanks, both of you. And thanks for starting the discussion. I've been wondering if your last two pieces were actually aimed at getting me to write something.

    One thing I try to discuss in this, but I am not sure I do well, is something that always perplexes some of my Christian friends: they cannot understand how I can respect and understand someone's faith while being indifferent to faith myself. To me, one is something personal to someone that deserves respect, even though I don't share it. That's not a difficult approach for me to understand, but it is to some others, and that difficulty for them may be tempered by their conviction that what they love and enjoy is something they want me to have as well. In the case of friends, it is genuine well-wishing. But from some others, it's condescension, and that bothers me, and hardens me even more against organized religion.

    I was raised (if you couldn't tell) Southern Baptist, and in a small town. My movement away from that came at time in my life when I was traveling a great deal and being exposed to so much more, so many different lifestyles, faiths, and experiences. It was like an opening of my mind; I began to see things from a broader, a "more accepting of everything" kind of perspective. All that, combined with a fair amount of witnessed hypocrisy, and a few bad experiences with some overly zealous people (and a couple of philosophy and world's religions classes) brought me to where I am.

    Here is a question I hardly ever voice to anyone I know is a person of faith (because it would seem disrespectful to), but sometimes ponder: is God, or are gods, and the afterlife a creation of mankind because of their fear of death? If that question were ever perfectly answered, everyone on both sides of the issue could put alot to rest.

    But, I guess that's why they call it faith.

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  4. Will Cody, I was trying to be provocative with the last two posts, and I'm glad to see I was successful. I believe Leon is in the process of a response as well, so this should be a good one.

    I have a similar religious history as yours, but my perspective changed much later in life. In fact, I've developed an apathy much like you expressed in your definition for an agnostic. The discussion of religion just didn't seem important to me for quite a while. Still, outrage over characters like Benny Hinn will still rear it's head. And if you ever get a good answer to your question about the afterlife, let me know. In fact, we all would wan to know.

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  5. Find I agree with a lot of your post. I also find the when I say I don't do religion people expect me to criticise their faith. Not going to happen, I respect their choice. I am a spirtual person it's just that I can't stand organised religion. I find it hard to explain how I feel but going out and seeing things makes me appreciate things more than sitting listening to some bloke ever could.

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  6. @ Cody about the fear of death question. I think that may contribute to why people want to serve a God, but I also think that a lot of it is what you grew up learning and the idea that you are following some kind of "parental" guidelines. I think nobody will want to admit it but a lot of people that follow blindly by faith are insecure because they need to feel like they are doing the right thing, which in turn, will bless them greatly. People think they have hope with God. Since I have FINALLY came to the conclusion that there may not be Someone demanding our worship, I have put a lot more credit into myself and I realize that my quality of life is up to me, rather than blindly hoping that if I do right, God will bless me. I am even happier now.

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  7. Lori,

    You have hit on a couple of points that I think are just as important with your last comment. We are indeed products of our parents, and many follow the same paths as we are taught as children, be they religios beliefs, morals ,or ideology. I think it takes some life experience to help us deviate from that, or a recognition within ourselves of a deep incongruency with that of our parents that spurs a "rebellion."

    Also, I agree that we sometimes hope that belief in something we are taught is good, or by acts of goodness, we earn it back in return. It's that faith thing again, where our convictions and hopes kind of intersect.

    I think people place, or assign, alot of hope and control in a higher power or supreme being in order to give over some of the control (and sometimes blame) of their lives. Maybe it helps them make some sense of the things they can't accept or explain, to assign it to an unfathomable and powerful entity.

    My difficulty with that is that it drives us even further from what I wish we had, that Emersonian "Self Reliance." I wish we all thought for ourselves more, identified ouselves individually more (as opposed to our tendency to want to identify with others), and took responsibility for our own actions more.

    I believe we don't need God to be the best that we can, and should instead strive to be that person regardless of whether or not it is returned in kind to us, or earns us a favorable place in an afterlife, and that if we pursued that, we might feel an self-empowered strength that would in turn feed itself. In this, I might be better defined as a humanist than an agnostic, which I kind of prefer anyway.

    And PS: our blog team is woefully masculine. We need much more diversity on this team. Maybe you should consider contributing. Talk to Paul.

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  8. Cody-re:fear of death. Having been in this journey of faith for 44 years I have evolved in many areas. Gradual growth, maturity and change have come about. I’m answering from where I stand now. I don’t think I fear death. I don’t think about it much at all. I might hope it isn’t scary or painful such as an accident or inflicted by another person, but the crossing over part itself isn’t scary to me. I don’t recall ever being overly focused on the afterlife at all either a fear of hell or trying to earn Heaven. (I don’t believe we earn it at all-it is given at the asking.) I will be happy to be there once there, but I intend to fully live this life until that time.

    I can’t say there is much I am afraid of any more. I am pretty content and peaceful about all things and I attribute this to my growing faith.

    My motivation as a Christian is growth and deepening my spiritual life and helping others do the same as I am invited to do so. In my life it is a relationship. This has been a constant since I was four years old. I cannot deny what I have experienced. I don’t know that I can fully explain this to someone to whom it is an unknown and foreign thing. The sense of connecting with God is more solid and more real than any other connection I know and it has been unchanging since I first realized it was there.

    To assume God is created by man for solely that reason supposes that those of us who know and experience God in a personal way have a screw loose somewhere. I cannot deny things of a supernatural nature that I have experienced and I consider myself fully sane. When I read scripture or hear teaching from it there is truth that resonates in me. I connect with it like I connect with God. When I sing or talk to God I have that same connection. When I serve someone else or choose a certain path based on what I believe to be the most right course of action-informed by what I believe to be righteous- I have that same moment of connection to God.

    I don’t measure things in a way where I have to appease an angry God therefore I must not…or I have to have x number of gold stars on my holiness sticker chart or I don’t measure up. I act out of gratitude for creation, for the connection, for the awe I have for the love from God.
    In my life growth has happened in community with other like-minded believers. It is never my place to tell someone else what to do or what I think of what they do. (Can I make exception for the ex? just kidding.) Being with others who are trying to live good lives in honor of God, trying to make the world a better place, respect and care for creation and people helps me grow. Reading scripture and praying helps me grow. Worship helps me grow. But ironically it isn’t about me at all. I grow less selfish and less inwardly focused as I grow. It’s about others; loving and forgiving those who are hard to love and forgive, giving to anyone who has a need all that I can. It’s all about God. The best way I can describe it is that I know who holds my hand.

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  11. "To assume God is created by man for solely that reason supposes that those of us who know and experience God in a personal way have a screw loose somewhere."

    You've mistaken a question for an assumption.

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  12. Hey kc, I understand where you're coming from with your comments, but I still think Cody's point about fear stands. The thing about modern Christian evangelism is that it's usually initiated by an appeal to one's fear of the unknown, i.e. telling someone they are going to hell unless they accept Jesus as their savior. Certainly anybody can grow and be happy in their faith, but for many faith begins with fear.

    And I hate to speak for Cody, but you have to remember what he wrote:

    "But, for myself, I instead prefer to view everyone’s faith or religion as a very personal conviction, something deeply felt, and deserving my respect."

    I don't think he considers people of faith as having a screw loose. He just doesn't agree.

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